Curmudgeon's Corner

I find it kind of peculiar that people think a high turnout will favor  passage of the referenda.  I believe the conventional wisdom is that low turnout favors passage of spending referenda, as only the more civic-minded, and those with a vested personal interest in the issues, show up.  When there is a larger turnout all the grumps who will vote down anything hit the polls.  I believe that a number of years ago the school board in Madison (?) was accused of intentionally scheduling a referendum when there was nothing else interesting on the ballot to exploit that fact.

From my own perspective, having this on the November ballot will insure that a significantly higher percentage of voters will weigh in on the issue.  I think its a bit of a stretch to assume that a majority of the additional voters would vote in favor of it.

No matter what the result is, it will signficantly impact the elementary education environment in Germantown for many, many, years.  I just urge everyone to arm yourself with enough facts to make an informed decision when you go to the ballot, no matter which way you end up voting.

I have children just beginning elementary school.  I would like to see some more information on how a decision was made to build a 17.5 million dollar school. In all the literature sent it does not give all the options -  we are treated like we cannot handle the facts.  Well with out them, my answer is NO.  What are the costs to expand the existing structures of our current schools?  When are they going to ask for more money to expand the Middle & High School?  Are we going to have a referendum every two years now? When it is someone elses money it does not seem like a lot to the school board members.  How do we start a recall to get board members who care about the kids and about the tax payers?

GTown102

The answers to all of those questions have been given numerous times.  If you have cable television, find when they'll be replaying the most recent Board meeting.  Board President Erdmann went through a pretty complete detailed explanation of all the options that were looked at, and why they're not feasible or were not chosen.

I take exception to your notion that the Board does not care about the taxpayers.  This District has been quite diligent over the past several years.  There have been numerous cuts over the past several years, along with an increased focus on taking care of the buildings we already have.

Regarding taxes, I first ran for the Board 5 years ago as a result of my School Board taxes going up over 12% in one year.  Now, 5 years later, I can honestly say that the amount of School District property taxes per my most recent statement (12/2007) was LESS than I paid in December, 2003.

GTown102 I am with Dave. I believe the Board has done a good job during the last 5 years. Either you didn't pay any attention to the last referendum or you just moved into the district. In any case there is no excuse for not knowing the facts. All you have to do is ask. There are alot of people asking questions again and all I can say is there are very few people, if any, at any of the "normal" board meetings. Before you point fingers come to the meetings and make it known what you feel.

Dave -

Can you please tell me why it is necessary to hold the young children in our commnunity hostage?  It is very apparent that the vote to eliminate all day kindergarten is an attempt to get the referendum passed.  If it cannot stand on it its own merits, why must the children pay the price?

GTOWNGUY-

How are the children being held hostage if there is no space?  They will definitely be held hostage by voters who make it a battle with the board, instead of addressing the issue of lack of classroom space.  Remember, the board is not getting new offices, the referendum is for the kids and the advancement of Germantown schools.  

There is not an attempt to hold kindergarten students hostage.  Given our current space, we cannot fairly offer all day kindergarten.  I answered this question a few days ago, allow me to paste that same response here.  

As a member of the Germantown Board of Education, I appreciate Dave explaining my views, those same views were clearly printed in today's newspaper.  I made the motion to discontinue all day Kindergarten.  I did so because I cannot any longer support a system that offers the program only to a portion of those families who want it.  I have spent three years trying to find a solution that would allow us to offer the all day programs to all students, and have been unsuccessful.  

The issue is plain, we do not have adequate space.  Looking to add space to other buildings has been impossible or problematic.  We looked at adding portable classrooms, the village said we couldn't.  We explored leasing space, the space didn't meet requirement for education and costs to modify the space were prohibitive.

I believe strongly that to be a viable community of choice, our schools must offer competitive programming.  All day kindergarten is an example of that.  

If you can't see what is really going on here - I shudder to think how you function in the real world.

The board wants a new school at the Donges Bay location.

If this referendum was truly able to stand on it's own two feet the board would not:

a) cut the kindergarden program to reduce the state funding we get so that they can claim that building the new school will SAVE money (oh brother) - plus they could have waited until after the election to cut it if it really needed to be cut

b) Pile on another $5 million of other "goodies" that just appeared out of nowhere to try and get more people to vote for it

c) we now have another referendum to "support" the schools. If there were enough kids to need a new school - shouldn't the tax base have expanded enough to cover this? I have never gotten an answer to that question.

The answer here is simple. If someone is trying that hard to manipulate you into doing something - I am immediately suspect. If this was a true need - they wouldn't have to go through all this.

I have voted for referendums in GT in the past. These two will not be one of them. I'm calling all my friends and neighbors to point out these simple facts and asking them to draw their own conclusions.

We have had a lottery system for full day kindergarten for three years.  Why would the board suddenly be overwhelmed by the injustice of it now?  A tad suspicious.  It is truly abominable that 150+ children will lose an additional educational opportunity, and the district will lose state funding dollars, because the board wants to employ this strong arm tactic to get the referendum passed.

The only difference between full time and part time kindergarden is another snack and naptime - they really don't spend that much more time on education.

If kindergarten is so important to parents then look to who is offering it now. St. Marys in the Falls has it as does St. Boniface (I believe) but then it wouldn't be "free" now would it. If it is that important then invest your own dollars in your childrens education, don't rely on the taxpayers to pay the tab.

I've really had enough of all of you people pointing fingers and back biting. Move on, stop the talking, make your decision, and when November comes vote on it the way you decide.

Excellent point Irwin...

And Numo - sorry to disappoint - but I plan on "pointing fingers" even after the vote - because we REALLY need a new school board. Let's get a referendum on that.

Numo - asking questions is not pointing fingers and back biting.  You support the school referendum - so you do not want a debate.  I feel the school board made a really cynical move with cutting the all day kindergarten in an effort to "strong arm" and intimidate the tax payers into supporting this referendum.  Again, 17.5 million dollars (we are being punished by a million for not voting for this proposal in April) is an absurd dollar amount.  Tacking on an additional 5 million to appease other special interests - arrogant.  In Wisconsin we are taxed pretty heavily.  As long as I have lived in Germantown (9 years) their have been concerns with the growth.  Part of being a public official is saving for the growth, foreseeing future needs, and putting aside money to pay for expansion.   When are we going to get the new referendum for the Middle & High School?  You absolutely know that it is in the works as soon as the new elementary school is built.  Read the children’s book “When You Give a Pig a Pancake” by Laura Joffe Numeroff and that is the Germantown School Board.  

Numo - asking questions is not pointing fingers and back biting.  You support the school referendum - so you do not want a debate.  I feel the school board made a really cynical move with cutting the all day kindergarten in an effort to "strong arm" and intimidate the tax payers into supporting this referendum.  Again, 17.5 million dollars (we are being punished by a million for not voting for this proposal in April) is an absurd dollar amount.  Tacking on an additional 5 million to appease other special interests - arrogant.  In Wisconsin we are taxed pretty heavily.  As long as I have lived in Germantown (9 years) their have been concerns with the growth.  Part of being a public official is saving for the growth, foreseeing future needs, and putting aside money to pay for expansion.   When are we going to get the new referendum for the Middle & High School?  You absolutely know that it is in the works as soon as the new elementary school is built.  Read the children’s book “When You Give a Pig a Pancake” by Laura Joffe Numeroff and that is the Germantown School Board.  

TAXEDTOTHEMAX,

You have that opportunity ever time you vote. May I suggest you and whomever you can get to run for school board positions that share your same views go for it. You have that right so do it or maybe you can start a recall of all the board members and then take over even sooner.

Mr. Fletcher-What about the people in the area who are either A-not catholic, or B-don't want religion to be taught to their children during school?

According to the Department of Public Instruction website, in the 2006-2007 school year in the State of Wisconsin, only 9 districts out of 426 districts use only half day programs for 5 year old kindergarten. This equals approximately 2.1%. Why is Germantown School District moving backwards in education instead of trying to give our children the best education possible?

The school board shouldn't be the only target in the crosshairs, let's not forget that we are strapped for space because of the rubber stamp approach to development the Village Board has had for decades.  Every governing body in Germantown needs a good house cleaning. It is time for the citizens to take back our community and institute reasonable and prudent plans for growth, not quick tax cash grabs. I, personally am sick and tired of the little guy getting the shaft and being stuck with the bill.  Consistently, our "leaders" have failed to act and deal with a problem until it was a "big" problem -  be it a swimming pool, ridiculous technical school increases, water/sewer rates, road infrastrucure, or what have you.  Enough is enough.

Good Question Niki - WHY is the school board getting rid of full day kindergarden? If you can answer that correctly you will have learned something today.

There are plenty of options for a parent that wishes to send their child to all day kindergarden. You could even move to another school district.

Taxed to the Max- I could, but then I would have to leave my job.

And besides that, with a few exceptions, I really like living in Germantown. I have lived here for almost 25 years, went to school here, joined the Fire Department, moved my (at the time) boyfriend, now husband here. I don't want to leave. It is also a safe place to raise my two children. But, if someone doesn't speak up when they think that things are going in a bad direction, things never change. You have your opinion on whether or not we need a new school, and so do I. We are not going to agree, and that's fine. However, I will still try to convince everyone I talk to that I think that we need to put our children first. In my opinion, that means building a new school and continuing (reinstating?) full day kindergarten for 5 year olds. I don't think that Germantown should be in the minority when it comes to great education for our kids.

Don't tell me the decision to drop all day kindergarten is not holding the children hostage.  It is a decision made to attempt to force the citizens to back this referendum.  Please do not pee on my head and tell me it is raining.  I (we) are not that gullable to believe the timing of this is not related to the referendum.

Here's a thought...SAVE for a new school.  BUDGET for a new school with your current funds.  That's what happens in the real world.

CPL CACHE,

Why doesn't everyone who has less than 30 years of living in the village leave and we could demolish the homes, go back to gravel roads in some areas and live happily ever after. The growth seen in G-Town for the most part has been very good. We have not grown as fast as West Bend or Jackson. I would love to see the street I live on go back to a gravel road but that would not fly today.

Niki

Why is it alright to you that I should have to pay so you can work? Isn't that why we have daycare?  

NUMO - I thought you were above the back biting?  Asking questions and demanding a responsible government does not mean we want to go back to gravel roads.  Being fiscally prudent is not an unreasonable request.  I I have to budget for the things I know I will need in the future.  Here a really strange concept, save X amount of dollars instead of spending people's hard earned money.  

GTOWN102,

Here is an even stranger concept. Last five years of decreases in school taxes. Last five years of increases in student enrollment. Because of STATE MANDATED services costs went up but taxes decreased. So explain to me how you can save. The old saying 10 lbs. of crap in a 5 lb. bag. Oh and by you think I support the school referendum I DO NOT!!!!  But I do favor making sure the children have a good education and if there is a cost associated with that then we need to address it. The State of Wisconsin, thanks in large part to our wonder Gov. Doyle, mandates useless things that cost districts money.

Gtown102- I am a stay at home mom during the day. I work on nights and weekends as an on call EMT. You are not paying for any daycare costs for me, as they do not exist.

There is not one child in the Germantown School system that is lacking the opportunity to get a quality education! I am really tired of hearing that we need a new school to ensure a high quality of education!

NUMO,

Why that's a brillant idea, everyone who has lived here less than 30 years should leave. <sarcasm=ON>  The point being made is this:  build subdivsions and you need to build more schools, it really isn't rocket science. Interesting you bring up Jackson and West Bend, but not Slinger.  Could it be that Slinger took a responsible planning approach to the needs of the growing community and the West Bend School District sat on its hands until they were forced to propose one fo the largest referendums in state history?  So a school gets built in Germantown, then what?  Another referendum for a Middle School five years from now? and then another one for High School expansion?  And three more pool proposals in between all that?  Give me a break.

I don't beleive the proposal to build a new grade school is the right choice. We should fix the whole system by building a new HIGH SCHOOL . If we're having overcrowding in the grade schools..middle school.. and high school let's look at this.. we could use the high school for the middle school...Sure we're looking at more expense but in the end we'll have to restructure the upper schools,anyway, with more costs.

Ok GJT - how many kids do you have that are now in the high school or about to enter?

Niki

Then find a kindergarten program that is not faith based. They are out there. You need to invest some time to find them and invest some money to participate. So if it is so important then put the time to find a program and invest the dollars in your childrens future. It sounds like your committment ends when it is no longer "free".

I just read something kind of shocking on the front page of today's Journal:  "capacity exceeds enrollment at the middle and high schools, and those schools, unlike the elementary buildings, can be expanded".  So why not come up with a solution that will utilize that excess capacity, maybe involving moving 8th grade to the high school and 5th to Kennedy?  Eventually expand the high school to house all of 7th and 8th grade (and throw in a pool while you are at it!) if overall enrollment continues to grow.  That may be a little too far outside the box for some, but I believe New Berlin has 7th - 12th at one school.  In dealing with any problem, I believe it is always important to build in flexibility and leave yourself options.  A 5th small, landlocked elementary school does not seem to do this.  

Irwin Fletcher- Please do not question my committment to my children's education. You do not know me, or my family. I was asking a simple question, not attacking you or your beliefs. Unfortunately, this board has become a great way for people to wage, in my opinion, personal attacks against others who don't agree with them. My opinion is simple. We need to provide the best education possible for children, whether or not their parents can afford to send them to private school. According to the Department of Instruction, the State of Wisconsin has a committment to ensure a quality education for every child. In my belief, that includes full day kindergarten, along with 4 year old kindergarten, and apparantly the Department of Instruction believes the same way. I understand that you would like to keep your taxes as low as possible, but if we start to leave behind the students who cannot afford private school, we are hurting a large portion of our students. And, don't forget, the students of today are the doctors, nurses, lawyers etc. of tomorrow. These are the people who are going to care for you when you are no longer able to care for yourself.

Townie - why do you have such a hard on for pool that was voted down THREE times! Can we finally put that boondoggle to bed?

That said - I'd be curious to know if the illustrious school board bothered themselves to look at the capacity solutions you are proposing.

I'm still not convinced of the need for capacity, since no one seems to be able to tell me what capacity REALLY is (not just that we are over by a certain number and so on.) Class sizes? Students per grade? There are a few web sites - but everyone tells me that info is out of date.

TAXEDTOTHEMAX, GJT, NIKI, CPL CACHE, GTT, GTOWNIE, GTOWN102, GTOWNGUY, IRWIN FLETCGER, LUVXG:

There is a School Board Meeting tonight and I just know I will see you all there to voice your suggestions, concerns, etc.

Irwin,

Sorry I didn't mean to spell Fletcher wrong.

I wish I could be, but I have required training tonight for the Fire Dept.

TTTM -- I really have no erotic feelings toward a pool at all and voted against it each time, but I know that many in the community do want one. If we meet our space needs in a fiscally wise manner, there would probably be enough dollars left over for "nice to haves" like that.  That was my only point.

Further to the above, I think it is important that even people who truly believe that we need to add classroom space stop and think about whether this proposal is the best way to do it.  The survey on this website is quite annoying because the options to answer the question of "Will you support the referendum?" are only essentially "Yes - we need space" and "No - we can't afford it".  There should be an option like "No - I don't think this is the best option to meet our needs but would probably vote yes for something else".  There is a very simple-minded view out there that if you support education and children you should automatically vote along with whatever the school board proposes.

Come on NIKI, please don't try to tell me that we must have full day kindergarden and a 4 year old kindergarden to ensure that there is a quality education! How many of the "doctors, nurses, lawyers etc." that are in practice today do you really think went to 4 year old kindergarden??? Or even full day kindergarden???? Like I have said before, not one child in the Germantown School District is lacking the opportunity to get a quality education! A quality education starts with the Parents and teachers not fancy new school buildings!!!

However, like I've said before, 1 teacher can only do so much for so many students. As you've said, quality education starts with quality teachers. But quality teachers need a place to do what they do, and also need to be to have a manageable class size. When the student to teacher ratio is too big, students are not getting the education they need. The other point that I made was that Germantown School District is in 2% of Wisconsin, the other 98% offer full day kindergarten. Why is Germantown backtracking and reducing programs that are standard in the rest of the state?

The only reason that Germantown is cutting the full day kindergarden is to try and strong arm the community into a new school! Try to see and understand what this board is trying to do. They Still have not answered all the questions I have presented to them multiple times! I am still waiting to hear back from Mr. Magill on the road improvement costs and where that money is comming from! I also want to know why if it is ok to scale back the size/scope of the school now for the November ballot, why couldn't they have scaled back the size/scope of the schoold back in April?!

The teachers in this community are not overburdened with the student/ teacher ratio. In fact, my own child only had 17 students in his class last year. Is that not a managable size class? If you feel this is not a managable size, what is for a public school?

If that is true,(and I'm not saying that you are lying) then there is a lot of miscommunication with information that is available. I have read that Germantown is completely over capacity for the students, in many different articles. If it is not true and other ways to get full day kindergarten back are available, then that would be the better way to go. However, as a parent who doesn't have children in school yet, you must go on the information that is available to you. If my conceptions are incorrect, then I would be the first to say that. However, in all the research that I have tried to do, everything says that the schools are overcrowded. Then the full day option of kindergarten is cancelled. If there are classrooms with 17 kids to a teacher, then maybe switching kids to different schools to alleviate pressure would work better.

Niki,

I have tried multiple times to get answers from this board on many questions, including why we cannot reassign kids to even out class sizes and either the member I asked didn't have an answer or would tell me and I will use a direct quote from Mrs. Brust "that option is not logistically feasable". To me it seems that when the board members are pressed for answers that they do not like those are the answers they give or do not give one at all.

I have had 2 kids go through the elementary system in GTown and they received top notch teaching and never once did I feel that lack of space was creating a below standard education.

I also don't like how this board & the superintendant is spinning the cost of a new school to the public, basing it on a $100,000 home. Please spare me! The median home price in 2006 was almost 2 1/2 times that! Lets give the public the real picture of what it is going to cost each and every taxpayer. And another question I have asked an have not received an answer on, is what are they going to do if the school referendum passes but the referendum to Exceed State Imposed Revenue Caps for the purpose of Operating a New Elementary School does not pass what are they going to do then and does that referendum have a cap on it for the number of years that it can be exceeded? So you see there aree many questions but no answers at this point......

As a resident since 1991 I have seen many school referendoms come and go...the best solution failed by under 100 votes as I recall~  Interesting how hind-sight is 20-20. If this referendum had passed we might now all be enjoying the new highschool; overcrowding in the grade schools would have been moved into split middle schools... I still contend that this is the solution that would best serve our community.  I have voted in favor of almost every school referendum in the last 17 years other than this one.  I cannot see how building one grade school that will be the "cadillac" of the district will cause anything other than turmoil and fighting over whose children will be in this building. We will still be left with the enormous limitations of our high school and maintenance issues at the other 4 grade schools.  These are not easy issues to fight for, but our students in the district will all suffer if we spend this money without the ENTIRE district and all aged children in our sights.  

Think carefully~ if this passes and is not handled well...what is the chance that we will get a 2nd chance and another passed referendum to make things right???

I just found this, and have a question for GTT if he or she ever comes back to read this.  What's the issue with the roads, and how is that related to a grade school?  will the kids bikes tear it up? or will 400 midgets be driving to school?  I don't get the relationship, sorry.  Please explain your concern, GTT.